The Joys of Binge Reading

Reyna Marder Genten had nearly 20 years in the public defender’s office as an appellate attorney, before she decided to trade in her legal robes for a keyboard and launched herself into a second career as a writer of legal thrillers and women’s fiction.

Hi there. I’m your host, Jenny Wheeler. And today Reyna talks about her latest book, Both Are True. presenting the inside story of a woman at the height of her career as a family court judge, who’s faced with temptation when career and personal life collide.

Our free giveaway this week is from historical mystery author, Michelle Cox, a Cinderella story, and a 1920s Chicago take on Downton Abbey.

If you loved Downton Abbey and Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, you’ll love Henrietta and Inspector Howard! Set in Chicago in the 1930’s, this fun romantic mystery series has won over 60 international awards!

FREE DOWNLOAD A GIRL LIKE YOU

And don’t forget, you can get exclusive bonus content, like hearing Reyna’s answers to the Getting To Know You Five Quick Fire questions by becoming a Binge Reading on Patreon supporter for the cost of less than a cup of coffee a month.

SUPPORT BINGE READING ON PATREON

Links to information in this episode:

Joyce Carol Oates: We Were The Mulvaneys: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5204.We_Were_the_Mulvaneys

Patti Smith Memoir: Just Kids: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/341879.Just_Kids

Chuck Greaves, another lawyer turned author at: https://thejoysofbingereading.com/chuck-greaves-eco-thriller-la-law/

Where to Find Reyna Marder Gentin:

Website: reynamardergentin.com
Facebook: @reynamardergentin

Twitter: @reynagentin

Instagram: @reynamardergentin

Introducing women’s fiction author Reyna Marder Gentin

What follows is a “near as” transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to the show notes in The Joys of Binge Reading.com for important mentions.
But now, here’s Reyna.

Jenny Wheeler: Hello there Reyna, and welcome to the show. It’s great to have you with us.

Reyna Marder Gentin: Thank you so much for inviting me.

Jenny Wheeler: You are a former criminal attorney with the Public Defender’s office who has turned into a crime writer. What made you decide to get into fiction, and how did it come about?

Reyna Marder Gentin: I always felt like there were stories lurking behind the cases I had. As an appellate attorney, you’re stuck with a closed record. I knew what had happened right before the crime and at the time of the crime and maybe a little bit afterwards, but I never got to see the backstory. I never really understood who these people were because I didn’t have a chance to meet with them.

We didn’t meet our clients. We would exchange letters, but very much pertaining to the case. Those questions you have that might explain why a person does what they do, what their family was like, what their education was like, what their love life was like, all of those things were off limits. When I did end up leaving the job – and I was there for almost 18 years – I felt like I had put in my dues, but I had had enough. I felt like I was hitting up against a wall on the storytelling. I couldn’t bring myself honestly anymore to try to tell the story of these people when I knew so little.

Understanding ‘the story behind the story’

That was the impetus when I left – trying to figure out what else could I do with my time that might be related but would allow me to explore things about the defendants, about the judges, about the prosecutors, about the defense attorneys, things I couldn’t do in real life, but I would be able to do in fiction.

That is the genesis of how it started to happen. The actual way it happened was that I quit my job. I had no idea what I was going to do next, and a friend told me she was taking a writing class and invited me to come along. I went with her, and it all sprang from there.

Jenny Wheeler: It’s interesting because I had not realized that distinction about appellate attorney because it works differently in New Zealand and probably in many other jurisdictions. I don’t think the Commonwealth countries like Britain and Australia have that system either, and a lot of our listeners come from there, so could you take it back a step and explain.

How can you defend someone when you never get a chance to talk to them? Here in New Zealand, we have Legal Aid. I thought your job would have been similar to Legal Aid here, but they certainly get to talk to their clients.

Reyna Marder Gentin: Of course. It is very similar to Legal Aid in that it is a state sponsored organization and the clients are indigent. They don’t pay for services. The difference I’m drawing is that a trial attorney, who’s going to take the defendant to trial, of course meets with the defendant.

The powers of an appellate judge

The defendant has to tell them what happened, has to develop defenses, has to explain who the witnesses are. Obviously they play a very key role in their own defense. A defendant, at least in this country and I’m sure there too, has a right to be at every stage of their trial, because they must help the attorney develop the case.

But once you hit the appellate stage, you’ve lost a trial. You are now incarcerated. You’ve lost. Now what you’re reviewing the case for are legal errors. They are errors having to do with whether the case was proven or whether something else went wrong at the trial level, and those errors have to be present in the record from the trial below. It’s not that our clients didn’t want to meet with us. The problem was that anything they told us we couldn’t use unless it was actually in the trial record below.

Jenny Wheeler: I see. Does that mean you also had the power to change the sentence if you found something was wrong?

Reyna Marder Gentin: We certainly have the power to argue that the sentence should be changed. It will be changed by the Judiciary.

Jenny Wheeler: That makes it a lot more clear. I saw on your website that you’ve got a range of work. You have done short stories. You’ve done young adult fiction as well. You’ve obviously experimented a little bit.

Both Are True is an emotional family story, not crime novel

Today we are talking about your adult fiction and in particular your latest novel, Both Are True, which is focused on a female judge who is doing the sort of job we’ve just described. She is tempted to subvert the course of justice, twist the rules a little bit, because she’s in love with this fellow. It’s an emotional romance rather than a crime novel, isn’t it?

Reyna Marder Gentin: It is. It’s not really a crime novel, and nor is it a legal thriller either. It’s more in the vein of women’s fiction. It’s more about the emotional journey the judge has taken. There is a lot of law in it because that’s what I know and what I find interesting to write about, but that is more of a backdrop than the subject of the book.

Jenny Wheeler: Jackie, the key character, has put all her strength and focus into her career. She’s made the bench as a young judge and she’s on probation for a year, so she’s very much aware that she has to impress her bosses. But also, she is nearly 40, she’s alone in the world, and she wonders if it’s all been worth it.

It might be a case of “be careful what you dream for in case it comes true”, because she’s not totally satisfied with her life, is she?

Reyna Marder Gentin: No. I think part of that is why the romance becomes compelling. She has fallen for this guy she believes can complement her in a way that she’s been unable to find herself. She’s ambitious, she’s smart, she’s political, she’s doing a lot, but she’s missing out on a lot of the smaller joys of life.

Never Miss out!

Never miss out on the hottest new authors, regular FREE BOOK OFFERS and Most Popular podcasts.

Yes please to FREE BOOKS and updates on popular books We won’t send you spam. Unsubscribe at any time. .formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] *{box-sizing:border-box;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"]{-webkit-font-smoothing:antialiased;-moz-osx-font-smoothing:grayscale;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] legend{border:none;font-size:inherit;margin-bottom:10px;padding:0;position:relative;display:table;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] fieldset{border:0;padding:0.01em 0 0 0;margin:0;min-width:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] body:not(:-moz-handler-blocked) fieldset{display:table-cell;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h1,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h2,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h3,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h4,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h5,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] h6{color:inherit;font-size:inherit;font-weight:inherit;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] p{color:inherit;font-size:inherit;font-weight:inherit;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] ol:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] ul:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] blockquote:not([template-default]){text-align:left;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] p:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] hr:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] blockquote:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] ol:not([template-default]),.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] ul:not([template-default]){color:inherit;font-style:initial;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .ordered-list,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .unordered-list{list-style-position:outside !important;padding-left:1em;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .list-item{padding-left:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][data-format="modal"]{display:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][data-format="slide in"]{display:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][data-format="sticky bar"]{display:none;}.formkit-sticky-bar .formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][data-format="sticky bar"]{display:block;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-select,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-checkboxes{width:100%;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit{border:0;border-radius:5px;color:#ffffff;cursor:pointer;display:inline-block;text-align:center;font-size:15px;font-weight:500;cursor:pointer;margin-bottom:15px;overflow:hidden;padding:0;position:relative;vertical-align:middle;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button:hover,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit:hover,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button:focus,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit:focus{outline:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button:hover > span,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit:hover > span,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button:focus > span,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit:focus > span{background-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.1);}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-button > span,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit > span{display:block;-webkit-transition:all 300ms ease-in-out;transition:all 300ms ease-in-out;padding:12px 24px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input{background:#ffffff;font-size:15px;padding:12px;border:1px solid #e3e3e3;-webkit-flex:1 0 auto;-ms-flex:1 0 auto;flex:1 0 auto;line-height:1.4;margin:0;-webkit-transition:border-color ease-out 300ms;transition:border-color ease-out 300ms;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input:focus{outline:none;border-color:#1677be;-webkit-transition:border-color ease 300ms;transition:border-color ease 300ms;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input::-webkit-input-placeholder{color:inherit;opacity:0.8;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input::-moz-placeholder{color:inherit;opacity:0.8;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input:-ms-input-placeholder{color:inherit;opacity:0.8;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-input::placeholder{color:inherit;opacity:0.8;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="dropdown"]{position:relative;display:inline-block;width:100%;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="dropdown"]::before{content:"";top:calc(50% - 2.5px);right:10px;position:absolute;pointer-events:none;border-color:#4f4f4f transparent transparent transparent;border-style:solid;border-width:6px 6px 0 6px;height:0;width:0;z-index:999;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="dropdown"] select{height:auto;width:100%;cursor:pointer;color:#333333;line-height:1.4;margin-bottom:0;padding:0 6px;-webkit-appearance:none;-moz-appearance:none;appearance:none;font-size:15px;padding:12px;padding-right:25px;border:1px solid #e3e3e3;background:#ffffff;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="dropdown"] select:focus{outline:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"]{text-align:left;margin:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"]{margin-bottom:10px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] *{cursor:pointer;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"]:last-of-type{margin-bottom:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] input[type="checkbox"]{display:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] input[type="checkbox"] + label::after{content:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] input[type="checkbox"]:checked + label::after{border-color:#ffffff;content:"";}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] input[type="checkbox"]:checked + label::before{background:#10bf7a;border-color:#10bf7a;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] label{position:relative;display:inline-block;padding-left:28px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] label::before,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] label::after{position:absolute;content:"";display:inline-block;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] label::before{height:16px;width:16px;border:1px solid #e3e3e3;background:#ffffff;left:0px;top:3px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-group="checkboxes"] [data-group="checkbox"] label::after{height:4px;width:8px;border-left:2px solid #4d4d4d;border-bottom:2px solid #4d4d4d;-webkit-transform:rotate(-45deg);-ms-transform:rotate(-45deg);transform:rotate(-45deg);left:4px;top:8px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-alert{background:#f9fafb;border:1px solid #e3e3e3;border-radius:5px;-webkit-flex:1 0 auto;-ms-flex:1 0 auto;flex:1 0 auto;list-style:none;margin:25px auto;padding:12px;text-align:center;width:100%;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-alert:empty{display:none;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-alert-success{background:#d3fbeb;border-color:#10bf7a;color:#0c905c;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-alert-error{background:#fde8e2;border-color:#f2643b;color:#ea4110;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-spinner{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;height:0px;width:0px;margin:0 auto;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;right:0;width:0px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;-webkit-transition:all 300ms ease-in-out;transition:all 300ms ease-in-out;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-spinner > div{margin:auto;width:12px;height:12px;background-color:#fff;opacity:0.3;border-radius:100%;display:inline-block;-webkit-animation:formkit-bouncedelay-formkit-form-data-uid-d471e51619- 1.4s infinite ease-in-out both;animation:formkit-bouncedelay-formkit-form-data-uid-d471e51619- 1.4s infinite ease-in-out both;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-spinner > div:nth-child(1){-webkit-animation-delay:-0.32s;animation-delay:-0.32s;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-spinner > div:nth-child(2){-webkit-animation-delay:-0.16s;animation-delay:-0.16s;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit[data-active] .formkit-spinner{opacity:1;height:100%;width:50px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit[data-active] .formkit-spinner ~ span{opacity:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by[data-active="false"]{opacity:0.35;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit-container{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;width:100%;z-index:5;margin:10px 0;position:relative;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit-container[data-active="false"]{opacity:0.35;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;background-color:#ffffff;border:1px solid #dce1e5;border-radius:4px;color:#373f45;cursor:pointer;display:block;height:36px;margin:0 auto;opacity:0.95;padding:0;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;text-indent:100%;-webkit-transition:ease-in-out all 200ms;transition:ease-in-out all 200ms;white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:190px;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-position:center;background-image:url("data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf8,%3Csvg width='162' height='20' viewBox='0 0 162 20' fill='none' xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'%3E%3Cpath d='M83.0561 15.2457C86.675 15.2457 89.4722 12.5154 89.4722 9.14749C89.4722 5.99211 86.8443 4.06563 85.1038 4.06563C82.6801 4.06563 80.7373 5.76407 80.4605 8.28551C80.4092 8.75244 80.0387 9.14403 79.5686 9.14069C78.7871 9.13509 77.6507 9.12841 76.9314 9.13092C76.6217 9.13199 76.3658 8.88106 76.381 8.57196C76.4895 6.38513 77.2218 4.3404 78.618 2.76974C80.1695 1.02445 82.4289 0 85.1038 0C89.5979 0 93.8406 4.07791 93.8406 9.14749C93.8406 14.7608 89.1832 19.3113 83.1517 19.3113C78.8502 19.3113 74.5179 16.5041 73.0053 12.5795C72.9999 12.565 72.9986 12.5492 73.0015 12.534C73.0218 12.4179 73.0617 12.3118 73.1011 12.2074C73.1583 12.0555 73.2143 11.907 73.2062 11.7359L73.18 11.1892C73.174 11.0569 73.2075 10.9258 73.2764 10.8127C73.3452 10.6995 73.4463 10.6094 73.5666 10.554L73.7852 10.4523C73.9077 10.3957 74.0148 10.3105 74.0976 10.204C74.1803 10.0974 74.2363 9.97252 74.2608 9.83983C74.3341 9.43894 74.6865 9.14749 75.0979 9.14749C75.7404 9.14749 76.299 9.57412 76.5088 10.1806C77.5188 13.1 79.1245 15.2457 83.0561 15.2457Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M155.758 6.91365C155.028 6.91365 154.804 6.47916 154.804 5.98857C154.804 5.46997 154.986 5.06348 155.758 5.06348C156.53 5.06348 156.712 5.46997 156.712 5.98857C156.712 6.47905 156.516 6.91365 155.758 6.91365ZM142.441 12.9304V9.32833L141.415 9.32323V8.90392C141.415 8.44719 141.786 8.07758 142.244 8.07986L142.441 8.08095V6.55306L144.082 6.09057V8.08073H145.569V8.50416C145.569 8.61242 145.548 8.71961 145.506 8.81961C145.465 8.91961 145.404 9.01047 145.328 9.08699C145.251 9.16351 145.16 9.2242 145.06 9.26559C144.96 9.30698 144.853 9.32826 144.745 9.32822H144.082V12.7201C144.082 13.2423 144.378 13.4256 144.76 13.4887C145.209 13.5629 145.583 13.888 145.583 14.343V14.9626C144.029 14.9626 142.441 14.8942 142.441 12.9304Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M110.058 7.92554C108.417 7.88344 106.396 8.92062 106.396 11.5137C106.396 14.0646 108.417 15.0738 110.058 15.0318C111.742 15.0738 113.748 14.0646 113.748 11.5137C113.748 8.92062 111.742 7.88344 110.058 7.92554ZM110.07 13.7586C108.878 13.7586 108.032 12.8905 108.032 11.461C108.032 10.1013 108.878 9.20569 110.071 9.20569C111.263 9.20569 112.101 10.0995 112.101 11.459C112.101 12.8887 111.263 13.7586 110.07 13.7586Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M118.06 7.94098C119.491 7.94098 120.978 8.33337 120.978 11.1366V14.893H120.063C119.608 14.893 119.238 14.524 119.238 14.0689V10.9965C119.238 9.66506 118.747 9.16047 117.891 9.16047C117.414 9.16047 116.797 9.52486 116.502 9.81915V14.069C116.502 14.1773 116.481 14.2845 116.44 14.3845C116.398 14.4845 116.337 14.5753 116.261 14.6519C116.184 14.7284 116.093 14.7891 115.993 14.8305C115.893 14.8719 115.786 14.8931 115.678 14.8931H114.847V8.10918H115.773C115.932 8.10914 116.087 8.16315 116.212 8.26242C116.337 8.36168 116.424 8.50033 116.46 8.65577C116.881 8.19328 117.428 7.94098 118.06 7.94098ZM122.854 8.09713C123.024 8.09708 123.19 8.1496 123.329 8.2475C123.468 8.34541 123.574 8.48391 123.631 8.64405L125.133 12.8486L126.635 8.64415C126.692 8.48402 126.798 8.34551 126.937 8.2476C127.076 8.1497 127.242 8.09718 127.412 8.09724H128.598L126.152 14.3567C126.091 14.5112 125.986 14.6439 125.849 14.7374C125.711 14.831 125.549 14.881 125.383 14.8809H124.333L121.668 8.09713H122.854Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M135.085 14.5514C134.566 14.7616 133.513 15.0416 132.418 15.0416C130.496 15.0416 129.024 13.9345 129.024 11.4396C129.024 9.19701 130.451 7.99792 132.191 7.99792C134.338 7.99792 135.254 9.4378 135.158 11.3979C135.139 11.8029 134.786 12.0983 134.38 12.0983H130.679C130.763 13.1916 131.562 13.7662 132.615 13.7662C133.028 13.7662 133.462 13.7452 133.983 13.6481C134.535 13.545 135.085 13.9375 135.085 14.4985V14.5514ZM133.673 10.949C133.785 9.87621 133.061 9.28752 132.191 9.28752C131.321 9.28752 130.734 9.93979 130.679 10.9489L133.673 10.949Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M137.345 8.11122C137.497 8.11118 137.645 8.16229 137.765 8.25635C137.884 8.35041 137.969 8.48197 138.005 8.62993C138.566 8.20932 139.268 7.94303 139.759 7.94303C139.801 7.94303 140.068 7.94303 140.489 7.99913V8.7265C140.489 9.11748 140.15 9.4147 139.759 9.4147C139.31 9.4147 138.651 9.5829 138.131 9.8773V14.8951H136.462V8.11112L137.345 8.11122ZM156.6 14.0508V8.09104H155.769C155.314 8.09104 154.944 8.45999 154.944 8.9151V14.8748H155.775C156.23 14.8748 156.6 14.5058 156.6 14.0508ZM158.857 12.9447V9.34254H157.749V8.91912C157.749 8.46401 158.118 8.09506 158.574 8.09506H158.857V6.56739L160.499 6.10479V8.09506H161.986V8.51848C161.986 8.97359 161.617 9.34254 161.161 9.34254H160.499V12.7345C160.499 13.2566 160.795 13.44 161.177 13.503C161.626 13.5774 162 13.9024 162 14.3574V14.977C160.446 14.977 158.857 14.9086 158.857 12.9447ZM98.1929 10.1124C98.2033 6.94046 100.598 5.16809 102.895 5.16809C104.171 5.16809 105.342 5.44285 106.304 6.12953L105.914 6.6631C105.654 7.02011 105.16 7.16194 104.749 6.99949C104.169 6.7702 103.622 6.7218 103.215 6.7218C101.335 6.7218 99.9169 7.92849 99.9068 10.1123C99.9169 12.2959 101.335 13.5201 103.215 13.5201C103.622 13.5201 104.169 13.4717 104.749 13.2424C105.16 13.0799 105.654 13.2046 105.914 13.5615L106.304 14.0952C105.342 14.7819 104.171 15.0566 102.895 15.0566C100.598 15.0566 98.2033 13.2842 98.1929 10.1124ZM147.619 5.21768C148.074 5.21768 148.444 5.58663 148.444 6.04174V9.81968L151.82 5.58131C151.897 5.47733 151.997 5.39282 152.112 5.3346C152.227 5.27638 152.355 5.24607 152.484 5.24611H153.984L150.166 10.0615L153.984 14.8749H152.484C152.355 14.8749 152.227 14.8446 152.112 14.7864C151.997 14.7281 151.897 14.6436 151.82 14.5397L148.444 10.3025V14.0508C148.444 14.5059 148.074 14.8749 147.619 14.8749H146.746V5.21768H147.619Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M0.773438 6.5752H2.68066C3.56543 6.5752 4.2041 6.7041 4.59668 6.96191C4.99219 7.21973 5.18994 7.62695 5.18994 8.18359C5.18994 8.55859 5.09326 8.87061 4.8999 9.11963C4.70654 9.36865 4.42822 9.52539 4.06494 9.58984V9.63379C4.51611 9.71875 4.84717 9.88721 5.05811 10.1392C5.27197 10.3882 5.37891 10.7266 5.37891 11.1543C5.37891 11.7314 5.17676 12.1841 4.77246 12.5122C4.37109 12.8374 3.81152 13 3.09375 13H0.773438V6.5752ZM1.82373 9.22949H2.83447C3.27393 9.22949 3.59473 9.16064 3.79688 9.02295C3.99902 8.88232 4.1001 8.64502 4.1001 8.31104C4.1001 8.00928 3.99023 7.79102 3.77051 7.65625C3.55371 7.52148 3.20801 7.4541 2.7334 7.4541H1.82373V9.22949ZM1.82373 10.082V12.1167H2.93994C3.37939 12.1167 3.71045 12.0332 3.93311 11.8662C4.15869 11.6963 4.27148 11.4297 4.27148 11.0664C4.27148 10.7324 4.15723 10.4849 3.92871 10.3237C3.7002 10.1626 3.35303 10.082 2.88721 10.082H1.82373Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M13.011 6.5752V10.7324C13.011 11.207 12.9084 11.623 12.7034 11.9805C12.5012 12.335 12.2068 12.6089 11.8201 12.8022C11.4363 12.9927 10.9763 13.0879 10.4402 13.0879C9.6433 13.0879 9.02368 12.877 8.5813 12.4551C8.13892 12.0332 7.91772 11.4531 7.91772 10.7148V6.5752H8.9724V10.6401C8.9724 11.1704 9.09546 11.5615 9.34155 11.8135C9.58765 12.0654 9.96557 12.1914 10.4753 12.1914C11.4656 12.1914 11.9607 11.6714 11.9607 10.6313V6.5752H13.011Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M15.9146 13V6.5752H16.9649V13H15.9146Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M19.9255 13V6.5752H20.9758V12.0991H23.696V13H19.9255Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M28.2828 13H27.2325V7.47607H25.3428V6.5752H30.1724V7.47607H28.2828V13Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M41.9472 13H40.8046L39.7148 9.16796C39.6679 9.00097 39.6093 8.76074 39.539 8.44727C39.4687 8.13086 39.4262 7.91113 39.4116 7.78809C39.3823 7.97559 39.3339 8.21875 39.2665 8.51758C39.2021 8.81641 39.1479 9.03905 39.1039 9.18554L38.0405 13H36.8979L36.0673 9.7832L35.2236 6.5752H36.2958L37.2143 10.3193C37.3578 10.9199 37.4604 11.4502 37.5219 11.9102C37.5541 11.6611 37.6025 11.3828 37.6669 11.0752C37.7314 10.7676 37.79 10.5186 37.8427 10.3281L38.8886 6.5752H39.9301L41.0024 10.3457C41.1049 10.6943 41.2133 11.2158 41.3276 11.9102C41.3715 11.4912 41.477 10.958 41.644 10.3105L42.558 6.5752H43.6215L41.9472 13Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M45.7957 13V6.5752H46.846V13H45.7957Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M52.0258 13H50.9755V7.47607H49.0859V6.5752H53.9155V7.47607H52.0258V13Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3Cpath d='M61.2312 13H60.1765V10.104H57.2146V13H56.1643V6.5752H57.2146V9.20312H60.1765V6.5752H61.2312V13Z' fill='%23373F45'/%3E%3C/svg%3E");}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit:hover,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit:focus{background-color:#ffffff;-webkit-transform:scale(1.025) perspective(1px);-ms-transform:scale(1.025) perspective(1px);transform:scale(1.025) perspective(1px);opacity:1;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit[data-variant="dark"],.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit[data-variant="light"]{background-color:transparent;border-color:transparent;width:166px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit[data-variant="light"]{color:#ffffff;background-image:url("data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf8,%3Csvg width='162' height='20' viewBox='0 0 162 20' fill='none' xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg'%3E%3Cpath d='M83.0561 15.2457C86.675 15.2457 89.4722 12.5154 89.4722 9.14749C89.4722 5.99211 86.8443 4.06563 85.1038 4.06563C82.6801 4.06563 80.7373 5.76407 80.4605 8.28551C80.4092 8.75244 80.0387 9.14403 79.5686 9.14069C78.7871 9.13509 77.6507 9.12841 76.9314 9.13092C76.6217 9.13199 76.3658 8.88106 76.381 8.57196C76.4895 6.38513 77.2218 4.3404 78.618 2.76974C80.1695 1.02445 82.4289 0 85.1038 0C89.5979 0 93.8406 4.07791 93.8406 9.14749C93.8406 14.7608 89.1832 19.3113 83.1517 19.3113C78.8502 19.3113 74.5179 16.5041 73.0053 12.5795C72.9999 12.565 72.9986 12.5492 73.0015 12.534C73.0218 12.4179 73.0617 12.3118 73.1011 12.2074C73.1583 12.0555 73.2143 11.907 73.2062 11.7359L73.18 11.1892C73.174 11.0569 73.2075 10.9258 73.2764 10.8127C73.3452 10.6995 73.4463 10.6094 73.5666 10.554L73.7852 10.4523C73.9077 10.3957 74.0148 10.3105 74.0976 10.204C74.1803 10.0974 74.2363 9.97252 74.2608 9.83983C74.3341 9.43894 74.6865 9.14749 75.0979 9.14749C75.7404 9.14749 76.299 9.57412 76.5088 10.1806C77.5188 13.1 79.1245 15.2457 83.0561 15.2457Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M155.758 6.91365C155.028 6.91365 154.804 6.47916 154.804 5.98857C154.804 5.46997 154.986 5.06348 155.758 5.06348C156.53 5.06348 156.712 5.46997 156.712 5.98857C156.712 6.47905 156.516 6.91365 155.758 6.91365ZM142.441 12.9304V9.32833L141.415 9.32323V8.90392C141.415 8.44719 141.786 8.07758 142.244 8.07986L142.441 8.08095V6.55306L144.082 6.09057V8.08073H145.569V8.50416C145.569 8.61242 145.548 8.71961 145.506 8.81961C145.465 8.91961 145.404 9.01047 145.328 9.08699C145.251 9.16351 145.16 9.2242 145.06 9.26559C144.96 9.30698 144.853 9.32826 144.745 9.32822H144.082V12.7201C144.082 13.2423 144.378 13.4256 144.76 13.4887C145.209 13.5629 145.583 13.888 145.583 14.343V14.9626C144.029 14.9626 142.441 14.8942 142.441 12.9304Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M110.058 7.92554C108.417 7.88344 106.396 8.92062 106.396 11.5137C106.396 14.0646 108.417 15.0738 110.058 15.0318C111.742 15.0738 113.748 14.0646 113.748 11.5137C113.748 8.92062 111.742 7.88344 110.058 7.92554ZM110.07 13.7586C108.878 13.7586 108.032 12.8905 108.032 11.461C108.032 10.1013 108.878 9.20569 110.071 9.20569C111.263 9.20569 112.101 10.0995 112.101 11.459C112.101 12.8887 111.263 13.7586 110.07 13.7586Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M118.06 7.94098C119.491 7.94098 120.978 8.33337 120.978 11.1366V14.893H120.063C119.608 14.893 119.238 14.524 119.238 14.0689V10.9965C119.238 9.66506 118.747 9.16047 117.891 9.16047C117.414 9.16047 116.797 9.52486 116.502 9.81915V14.069C116.502 14.1773 116.481 14.2845 116.44 14.3845C116.398 14.4845 116.337 14.5753 116.261 14.6519C116.184 14.7284 116.093 14.7891 115.993 14.8305C115.893 14.8719 115.786 14.8931 115.678 14.8931H114.847V8.10918H115.773C115.932 8.10914 116.087 8.16315 116.212 8.26242C116.337 8.36168 116.424 8.50033 116.46 8.65577C116.881 8.19328 117.428 7.94098 118.06 7.94098ZM122.854 8.09713C123.024 8.09708 123.19 8.1496 123.329 8.2475C123.468 8.34541 123.574 8.48391 123.631 8.64405L125.133 12.8486L126.635 8.64415C126.692 8.48402 126.798 8.34551 126.937 8.2476C127.076 8.1497 127.242 8.09718 127.412 8.09724H128.598L126.152 14.3567C126.091 14.5112 125.986 14.6439 125.849 14.7374C125.711 14.831 125.549 14.881 125.383 14.8809H124.333L121.668 8.09713H122.854Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M135.085 14.5514C134.566 14.7616 133.513 15.0416 132.418 15.0416C130.496 15.0416 129.024 13.9345 129.024 11.4396C129.024 9.19701 130.451 7.99792 132.191 7.99792C134.338 7.99792 135.254 9.4378 135.158 11.3979C135.139 11.8029 134.786 12.0983 134.38 12.0983H130.679C130.763 13.1916 131.562 13.7662 132.615 13.7662C133.028 13.7662 133.462 13.7452 133.983 13.6481C134.535 13.545 135.085 13.9375 135.085 14.4985V14.5514ZM133.673 10.949C133.785 9.87621 133.061 9.28752 132.191 9.28752C131.321 9.28752 130.734 9.93979 130.679 10.9489L133.673 10.949Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M137.345 8.11122C137.497 8.11118 137.645 8.16229 137.765 8.25635C137.884 8.35041 137.969 8.48197 138.005 8.62993C138.566 8.20932 139.268 7.94303 139.759 7.94303C139.801 7.94303 140.068 7.94303 140.489 7.99913V8.7265C140.489 9.11748 140.15 9.4147 139.759 9.4147C139.31 9.4147 138.651 9.5829 138.131 9.8773V14.8951H136.462V8.11112L137.345 8.11122ZM156.6 14.0508V8.09104H155.769C155.314 8.09104 154.944 8.45999 154.944 8.9151V14.8748H155.775C156.23 14.8748 156.6 14.5058 156.6 14.0508ZM158.857 12.9447V9.34254H157.749V8.91912C157.749 8.46401 158.118 8.09506 158.574 8.09506H158.857V6.56739L160.499 6.10479V8.09506H161.986V8.51848C161.986 8.97359 161.617 9.34254 161.161 9.34254H160.499V12.7345C160.499 13.2566 160.795 13.44 161.177 13.503C161.626 13.5774 162 13.9024 162 14.3574V14.977C160.446 14.977 158.857 14.9086 158.857 12.9447ZM98.1929 10.1124C98.2033 6.94046 100.598 5.16809 102.895 5.16809C104.171 5.16809 105.342 5.44285 106.304 6.12953L105.914 6.6631C105.654 7.02011 105.16 7.16194 104.749 6.99949C104.169 6.7702 103.622 6.7218 103.215 6.7218C101.335 6.7218 99.9169 7.92849 99.9068 10.1123C99.9169 12.2959 101.335 13.5201 103.215 13.5201C103.622 13.5201 104.169 13.4717 104.749 13.2424C105.16 13.0799 105.654 13.2046 105.914 13.5615L106.304 14.0952C105.342 14.7819 104.171 15.0566 102.895 15.0566C100.598 15.0566 98.2033 13.2842 98.1929 10.1124ZM147.619 5.21768C148.074 5.21768 148.444 5.58663 148.444 6.04174V9.81968L151.82 5.58131C151.897 5.47733 151.997 5.39282 152.112 5.3346C152.227 5.27638 152.355 5.24607 152.484 5.24611H153.984L150.166 10.0615L153.984 14.8749H152.484C152.355 14.8749 152.227 14.8446 152.112 14.7864C151.997 14.7281 151.897 14.6436 151.82 14.5397L148.444 10.3025V14.0508C148.444 14.5059 148.074 14.8749 147.619 14.8749H146.746V5.21768H147.619Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M0.773438 6.5752H2.68066C3.56543 6.5752 4.2041 6.7041 4.59668 6.96191C4.99219 7.21973 5.18994 7.62695 5.18994 8.18359C5.18994 8.55859 5.09326 8.87061 4.8999 9.11963C4.70654 9.36865 4.42822 9.52539 4.06494 9.58984V9.63379C4.51611 9.71875 4.84717 9.88721 5.05811 10.1392C5.27197 10.3882 5.37891 10.7266 5.37891 11.1543C5.37891 11.7314 5.17676 12.1841 4.77246 12.5122C4.37109 12.8374 3.81152 13 3.09375 13H0.773438V6.5752ZM1.82373 9.22949H2.83447C3.27393 9.22949 3.59473 9.16064 3.79688 9.02295C3.99902 8.88232 4.1001 8.64502 4.1001 8.31104C4.1001 8.00928 3.99023 7.79102 3.77051 7.65625C3.55371 7.52148 3.20801 7.4541 2.7334 7.4541H1.82373V9.22949ZM1.82373 10.082V12.1167H2.93994C3.37939 12.1167 3.71045 12.0332 3.93311 11.8662C4.15869 11.6963 4.27148 11.4297 4.27148 11.0664C4.27148 10.7324 4.15723 10.4849 3.92871 10.3237C3.7002 10.1626 3.35303 10.082 2.88721 10.082H1.82373Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M13.011 6.5752V10.7324C13.011 11.207 12.9084 11.623 12.7034 11.9805C12.5012 12.335 12.2068 12.6089 11.8201 12.8022C11.4363 12.9927 10.9763 13.0879 10.4402 13.0879C9.6433 13.0879 9.02368 12.877 8.5813 12.4551C8.13892 12.0332 7.91772 11.4531 7.91772 10.7148V6.5752H8.9724V10.6401C8.9724 11.1704 9.09546 11.5615 9.34155 11.8135C9.58765 12.0654 9.96557 12.1914 10.4753 12.1914C11.4656 12.1914 11.9607 11.6714 11.9607 10.6313V6.5752H13.011Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M15.9146 13V6.5752H16.9649V13H15.9146Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M19.9255 13V6.5752H20.9758V12.0991H23.696V13H19.9255Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M28.2828 13H27.2325V7.47607H25.3428V6.5752H30.1724V7.47607H28.2828V13Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M41.9472 13H40.8046L39.7148 9.16796C39.6679 9.00097 39.6093 8.76074 39.539 8.44727C39.4687 8.13086 39.4262 7.91113 39.4116 7.78809C39.3823 7.97559 39.3339 8.21875 39.2665 8.51758C39.2021 8.81641 39.1479 9.03905 39.1039 9.18554L38.0405 13H36.8979L36.0673 9.7832L35.2236 6.5752H36.2958L37.2143 10.3193C37.3578 10.9199 37.4604 11.4502 37.5219 11.9102C37.5541 11.6611 37.6025 11.3828 37.6669 11.0752C37.7314 10.7676 37.79 10.5186 37.8427 10.3281L38.8886 6.5752H39.9301L41.0024 10.3457C41.1049 10.6943 41.2133 11.2158 41.3276 11.9102C41.3715 11.4912 41.477 10.958 41.644 10.3105L42.558 6.5752H43.6215L41.9472 13Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M45.7957 13V6.5752H46.846V13H45.7957Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M52.0258 13H50.9755V7.47607H49.0859V6.5752H53.9155V7.47607H52.0258V13Z' fill='white'/%3E%3Cpath d='M61.2312 13H60.1765V10.104H57.2146V13H56.1643V6.5752H57.2146V9.20312H60.1765V6.5752H61.2312V13Z' fill='white'/%3E%3C/svg%3E");}@-webkit-keyframes formkit-bouncedelay-formkit-form-data-uid-d471e51619-{0%,80%,100%{-webkit-transform:scale(0);-ms-transform:scale(0);transform:scale(0);}40%{-webkit-transform:scale(1);-ms-transform:scale(1);transform:scale(1);}}@keyframes formkit-bouncedelay-formkit-form-data-uid-d471e51619-{0%,80%,100%{-webkit-transform:scale(0);-ms-transform:scale(0);transform:scale(0);}40%{-webkit-transform:scale(1);-ms-transform:scale(1);transform:scale(1);}}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] blockquote{padding:10px 20px;margin:0 0 20px;border-left:5px solid #e1e1e1;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .seva-custom-content{padding:15px;font-size:16px;color:#fff;mix-blend-mode:difference;} .formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"]{border:1px solid #e3e3e3;max-width:700px;position:relative;overflow:hidden;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-background{width:100%;height:100%;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;background-size:cover;background-position:center;opacity:0.3;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] [data-style="minimal"]{padding:20px;width:100%;position:relative;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-header{margin:0 0 27px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-subheader{margin:18px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-guarantee{font-size:13px;margin:10px 0 15px 0;text-align:center;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-guarantee > p{margin:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-powered-by-convertkit-container{margin-bottom:0;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-fields{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;margin:25px auto 0 auto;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-field{min-width:220px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-field,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"] .formkit-submit{margin:0 0 15px 0;-webkit-flex:1 0 100%;-ms-flex:1 0 100%;flex:1 0 100%;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] [data-style="minimal"]{padding:40px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"]{margin-left:-5px;margin-right:-5px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-field,.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-submit{margin:0 5px 15px 5px;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-field{-webkit-flex:100 1 auto;-ms-flex:100 1 auto;flex:100 1 auto;}.formkit-form[data-uid="d471e51619"][min-width~="600"] .formkit-fields[data-stacked="false"] .formkit-submit{-webkit-flex:1 1 auto;-ms-flex:1 1 auto;flex:1 1 auto;} A judge discovers uncomfortable conflict of personal interest

She’s uptight, she’s very wound up, and she finds this guy who, at least on the surface, is more spontaneous, in a way he’s more loving, he’s a more real character then she’s been able to develop. When he leaves, and I’m not giving away too much because he leaves in the first chapter, she’s left in a quandary. What is it that I want? Was he the one for me, and if I think so, how do I get him back? That does color a lot of her decisions going forward.

Jenny Wheeler: You do very much clarify that conflict between her career and her emotional life, and I wondered if you were also raising the question of whether women can have it all. She has set up her life so that she’s willing to sacrifice one part of her life for her career. Maybe she’s made that decision, but that old hoary question of, can women have it all, what’s your view on that one?

Reyna Marder Gentin: I hope she grows over the novel and comes to some different understandings about what having it all means. At the end of the book, now I won’t give any more away, but she does speak to this question, and one of the things she says which to me is very true and is very much how I look at it, is that having it all doesn’t mean having it all exactly at the same time. You have a lifetime of experiences, hopefully, and you have different phases of your life.

The different meanings of the phrase ‘Having it All’

Perhaps there is one phase where having it all means that you want to have children and devote yourself to that. Maybe having it all later on means your children have grown and you can devote yourself to something else. They are all different parts and different times of your life. When you put it all together at the end of your life, you’ve had it all in some manner.

I don’t think anybody ever has it all, but you’ve had different parts that work together and, hopefully, have satisfied different needs at different points.

Jenny Wheeler: This seems to be a theme that’s fascinating to you because your first general adult novel, Unreasonable Doubts, covers rather similar territory. A woman is a public defender, her faith in the system has been chipped away by years of having only hardened criminals in front of her. Then she finds one case that reignites her passion for justice. Tell us about that book and how it fits in with what you did with the second one.

Reyna Marder Gentin: The first book I wrote very soon after I had quit my job, and people who know me personally can see that there were very striking similarities with the office that I worked in. A number of the characters are similar to people I knew or inspired by people I know or knew, and it was honestly a very cathartic experience writing the book. It allowed me to explore certain relationships and certain things that had happened to me over the course of my career in this office.

Reyna Marder Gentin’s first novel was closer to her own life

In Unreasonable Doubts, the main story of the character who might have been innocent was a case I had handled on appeal. Obviously I fictionalized it, and although there’s a romance surrounding it in the book, there was no romance in real life, but I used the legal error there as the foundation of the book. I think the legal error is interesting to people because it’s a sexual assault case. The whole question of the Me Too movement and what happens to the main character Liana, whether she herself is subjected to something in the book, became very timely in a way I couldn’t have predicted because I wrote it before the whole Me Too movement took off.

It was a lot of fun to write in some ways. There’s a character who is the mother in the book. My mother had passed away and a lot of her characteristics I drew from my mother but I was also able to change the ending, which was nice. In Unreasonable Doubts the mother gets a second shot at life and love after her husband dies and she moves into New York city and enjoys her latter years. My mother unfortunately didn’t have that.

There were aspects of it that were emotionally moving and draining to write. I guess one thing that has been interesting to see is that Both Are True is much more from my imagination. I worked in family courts so it has reality to it, but it’s not personal, and it’s been very different talking about that book with audiences and readers because it’s not me. It’s been kind of liberating to be able to speak about something and not have it be quite so emotionally draining.

Both Are Ture a more crafted and considered story

Jenny Wheeler: What was the difference writing the two books? Was that a different sort of experience?

Reyna Marder Gentin: It was very different. As I say, the first book was very much fueled by the emotions of having left the job and not knowing what I was going to be doing with myself. Some of the losses were very close at hand when I was writing the book. I wrote it in a little bit of a whoosh of creativity, but also I had to get this out of my system. It has to be out on the page and then once it’s there, I’ll be able to deal with whatever it represents.

Both Are True was different. It was a little more deliberate, it was maybe a little more crafted. I feel like my writing has gotten stronger between the two books, so yes, it was definitely a different experience.

Jenny Wheeler: Without giving anything away, the actual person who was being defended, the criminal in Unreasonable Doubts, in real life did your intervention make a difference to what happened to him?

Reyna Marder Gentin: It did. In real life he did win a new trial, unlike in the book which is a little different. He won a new trial, but he was in real life in fact guilty, and the evidence was pretty strong and he was found guilty again at the new trial, so in the end he didn’t actually benefit that much. He got a second shot but he ended up in the same place.

Finding a publisher for her passion project

Jenny Wheeler: It’s sad to say, but if he was guilty, you don’t have too much sympathy for that. Although I’ve got a friend who is very involved in looking at cold cases. There is quite a big movement with the cold case thing in law now, where people are now being found to have been historically wronged by the justice system.

Reyna Marder Gentin: Of course. I don’t know percentages, but certainly a lot of it has to do with DNA evidence. That, at least, you feel fairly confident about. If your DNA either says you are guilty or not guilty, you could feel good either way.

Jenny Wheeler You are a public defender. You’ve got a passion project with the first book. How did you find a publisher? Was that hard?

Reyna Marder Gentin: It was hard, mostly I would say because I didn’t understand the landscape at all, having never been involved in any of this. The thing people will tell you is you must get an agent. I don’t know how it works where you are, but here definitely the traditional way is to get an agent. That was definitely the conventional advice I was getting, but I was finding that very difficult. It’s hard to get an agent and it’s hard when you don’t have a history of publication, which of course, as your first book, you’re not going to have a history of publication. But that is what they are looking for.

Navigating the world of publishing as a new author

Additional to that now is the social media platform question. If you have tens of thousands of followers on Twitter or Instagram, that’s almost as good as a history of publication, but if you’re a 50-year-old mom who has been slaving away in a law office, you’re not going to have followers on Instagram.

So, I did find that difficult. I ended up going with what they call a hybrid publisher. They do all the things a publisher does – they vet the material and they distribute and they do the layout. They do everything, but you do make a financial contribution to it in return for much higher royalties, you do have to put some money in upfront. I did that with the first book, and I was very pleased with it. They did a beautiful job on the book, and they really did help me get it out there, and I was happy with that.

With the second, both the middle grade book I wrote and Both Are True, I ended up approaching small publishers. I didn’t really want to invest the money in it again, I was hoping somebody else would front that, and that worked out, so I’m with small publishers for both of those books. It is a different scene. They don’t do as much for you. You’re not paying for a service in any way. It’s just different. You’re more on your own, but it’s been good.

Jenny Wheeler: With the first book, maybe even more than Both Are True, did you have interest because of the Me Too element for it, because you’ve had lots of interviews on radio and podcasts for the books. You’ve been successful in getting publicity for yourself.

Never Miss out!

Never miss out on the hottest new authors, regular FREE BOOK OFFERS and Most Popular podcasts.

No transcript available.

Reyna Marder Gentin – Crime Fighter to Writer